Ep. 151 | Relationship Anxiety: When Worry Shows Up in Your Closest Connections

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Welcome to Everyday Therapy, where simple and practical concepts of therapy meet your everyday life. Hosted by licensed marriage and family therapist Brett Cushing and doctor Karen Ryan, we're here to help you unlock tools and strategies you need to become the best version of yourself. Whether you're looking for guidance, inspiration, anecdotes, or actionable advice, you're in the right place.

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Let's dive into everyday therapy.

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Hello and welcome to another podcast of Everyday Therapy. I am Doctor Karen Ryan here with the very one and only Brett Cushing. Hello, nice to be here. I'm a licensed marriage family therapist. We are excited to be talking today about relationships, especially because we are going to be having this come out Valentine's Day. Yeah. But applicable at any time a yes.

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But we also recognize there can be this sense of idealism that goes along with Valentine's Day. And yet things aren't always ideal. No. And so we can have increased anxiety. But to be in a relationship with people is to be vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah, it will cause anxiety. So we're excited to share this with you. Yeah. And dive into what is relationship anxiety.

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And kind of the different forms, how that can take shape and how you might be experiencing that. Right. And when does relationship anxiety become concerning where it becomes maybe something referred to as a relational obsessive compulsive disorder or relational OCD? So we'll try to help people understand who am I into something that's a little more concerning. Yeah, yeah.

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And you you touched on this right away, Brett. Right. Of like, well, what is relationship anxiety? It's worry about the relationship that you're in. Worry about. Like does this person care for me as much as I care for them? Is this person going to leave me? What. How is the future gonna look? You know, am I being the right kind of partner or am I the partner that they need?

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So you can see it really can sound different, but it's all around the theme of like, worry about the relationship and if it's like going to be sustained, if the person is going to leave you and how you are as a partner in that relationship. Yes. And it's very natural for us to all have that, I don't know about.

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You care, but kind of the pervasive theme that I hear for people coming in with therapy and the person I see in the mirror is this question, am I enough or a conclusion that I'm not enough? And then we bring that into our relationship and we become a little hyper vigilant about every little interaction, and we have that sort of vulnerability of questioning ourselves.

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And anxiety is naturally going to follow from that. So there's that fear of abandonment and oh no my partner is upset. So what does that mean. What does it mean for a relationship. What does it really mean about me. Can I tolerate that discomfort that comes with that. Right. That's bad right. I mean we tend to conclude oh this is bad because there's conflict.

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Yeah. So lots of reasons. Very understandable. Maybe we can maybe highlight a bit more on the common signs that come up so people can connect with this a little bit. Right. And knowing that that relationship anxiety can come when a relationship is very new, when the relationship is going through transitions. And sometimes when you've been in an established relationship for a long time.

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And so it can be helpful, like what are the signs and what can it look like at different stages in my relationship too? Yeah. So I think probably one of the most common signs is continually seeking reassurance. And I remember in high school, I was always looking for assurance. Everything okay? What are you thinking? You know, are we okay and trying to do they still like me?

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Right. What with me? Yeah. How are we doing? So luckily I changed a little bit, but it's very understandable that we are continually looking for reassurance. Am I okay and are we okay? Yeah, yeah. And so that can look like asking the person that you're in a relationship with. Do you still like me? Are you happy and kind of always checking.

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Are you okay? Are you mad at me or how are you doing? And so you can see how that comes from a place of anxiety. And if the relationship does feel okay, it's hard for that other person to know then how to respond. Right? So that's seeking reassurance. Sure. And if you're in a relationship with somebody who doesn't have this kind of anxiety and they're the recipient of all these questions, they begin to wonder, why are you asking all what's really behind this?

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Are you upset with me? Or are you concerned about things? So then you have kind of an anxious relationship as well. Yeah. Another sign is if you really find yourself overanalyzing texts, you know, trying to what is the tone and what is it like? Did they respond fast enough or did they take too long, or trying to interpret things or interpret things negatively that really catastrophize or reinforce that anxiety?

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Yeah, yes. Also, there's this over apologizing. I have no idea what this is talking about. I'm sorry that I, I mean, there you go doing it again. I used to apologize for things all the time, and then I really understood to replace that with, hey, thanks for understanding. I try not to apologize very much. And because I take a sense of responsibility too quickly, which perpetuates anxiety.

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Yeah. And I'm not really thinking the best about myself or the other person that they would understand. So I try to replace that with, hey, thanks for understanding. I was crabby yesterday or something, and I have a right to be a human right and need some accommodation or support or flexibility. Yeah. So there's this under current of fear of conflict.

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Yeah, yeah. And also another sign can be difficulty trusting right. And not feel like trusting that stability. So almost like it's too good. Like there's got to be something. So especially if individuals haven't had a lot of safety or security in their relationships, it can be hard to trust that things are just okay when things in the past have, you know, not been okay.

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Yes. In in a concerning part of, signs that come up is when we are our identity and our sense of being okay is wrapped up in how the other person is doing. And we become so hyper vigilant about what they're thinking, how they're feeling, how they might react, what their opinions are going to be of me, and we lose our sense of self if that.

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Yeah, continue in that. Not only do we lose our sense of self, but people will realize we actually can become resentful them. Yeah, because as we're hyper vigilant towards our partner, we're actually expecting them to be the same towards us. So this can lead into, other. Right. Which is essentially what you're defining. Right, Brett. Our emotional boundaries.

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Yes. Right. And then when when we're anxious, we're always trying to read that other person's emotions and then adjust our behavior based on what we think they need. And so you can see how that can become a vicious cycle. Yes. So maybe let's, look at more common patterns, specifically in terms of behaviors. What happens when people have relationship anxiety and they're interacting with their partner and in terms of the actions.

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So maybe the first one would be the protesting behaviors, the picking fights, the testing, the relationship. Now that sounds like we're pushing people away sometimes when we're engaging in a fight, when we're kind of nitpicking on things. And we were pushing for resistance and people listening might ask, well, why would we why would you do that? I mean, we're looking for yes, but it reminds me of in high school again, when I can tell I have a lot of unresolved issues from high school.

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We're still working. Yeah. But I was dating a girl. She was a year older than me and I heard she was going to break up with me. So what did I do. Broke up with her. Broke up with her first. Right. It gave me the illusion of control. And so this is kind of similar I think, where we, we protest and we push and we're sort of testing, but it gives us that sense of control.

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Yeah. And it's a preemptive strike in a way to just to see if they're going to really abandon us. And it ties in what you started with Brett about relationship anxiety. Can it really the core of that is when we don't know if we are worthy or requesting our own self-worth, or if we're good enough for the relationship.

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And so you can see when that's a protective factor. So when we feel like we're about to be abandoned or rejected, sometimes we lean in and we pull. My hands are like pulling up, like, come, come, come close, close, close, close, seek reassurance. And then other times it's like, this is too much, I'm too scared. And then it's a push, that protective factor that pushes that person away.

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That's when we're picking fights, that's all. Well, I'm gonna break up with them first and doing that. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy essentially. But we do that to protect ourselves, the challenges. It also, like in the end, hurts us. So glad you brought that up. I define it sort of a similar way, like I, I need to be close to you.

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So then I get close, then. Oh, no. No, you can hurt me. Yeah. Now I push you away before you hurt me. Oh, no. Now I'm distant. Yeah. And I don't want this. And we can't find that middle ground. And it is exhausting. Now another one is over functioning. I've spent a lot of time studying this too.

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And people pleasing. And that again is a way to control. It's really derived by anxiety. And now over functioning is when we're actually behaving in a way that we're trying to fix or manage other people's reactions. You know, their anger, their response, their opinion, what are they going to think of me? And so we anticipate that and we take responsibility for those things which are not our responsibility, but that really creates anxiety.

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Yeah. Right. And again, those are those emotional boundaries, that feeling that you are responsible for this other person's emotions, their needs or reactions. Right. And that piece. And if the relationship if we're feeling anxious about the relationship, that can also lead us to be over functioning because we're going to try to make sure everything's okay. Yes. Right. So you can see this also behaviorally.

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And we're going to make sure we have dates and we have to do this. And it's kind of becomes a checklist of these things that then like reassure you oh look at we're good. We're a happy couple because Jack Jack Jack Jack. So well said. Yes. And I think it's important for people who are on the receiving end of this.

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This is it obviously, understandably feels like someone's manipulating you. And that's not what's happening. It can look like they're angry. It can look like they're controlling. And it's hard to see that this person is hurting. This person feels unsafe, and you may not have even characterized them in those matters ever. And yet that's likely what's going on. They're not trying to manipulate you.

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It's just that they have this attempt to feel safe. Yeah. Yes. And it's really important. It's really hard to see. It's really important to try to go there. I'm like, okay. He is not like just screaming, angry at me. He's scared. Yeah. Or she's sad and fearful. Yeah. And it can be so hard because you say the word safety, right.

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And I think it is such an important thing because we do seek it all the time, and we can be quick to kind of like push that off or almost scoff at it. Like, what do you mean safe? Of course, or safe with me? Like I've never done anything. But when you can, like soften and take that deep breath and be like, no, all of us as humans, right, want this connection, but they can fear it and fear that vulnerability, especially if we've had painful experiences of attachment and relationships in the past.

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And so if we can soften and recognize, like this person just really needs to feel safe, and that isn't about me not making them feel safe. This is about their own stuff. And I have compassion. For even if they accuse you of being the one for not making them safe. It's not about that. And I'm glad you brought this up, because it begs the question, where does all of this come?

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Yeah, and it really does come from much of our childhood and our attachment, what our attachment was like growing up with other people. And when love was inconsistent. Yeah. When anger and other difficult emotions were extreme and unpredictable, when there was care that was there and then all of sudden gone without warning. There isn't a sense of safety and security growing up.

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So then as a child, you you have your, what we call it, your sympathetic nervous system gets activated. Yeah. And that's kind of what propels us into that fight or flight or into that kind of shutting down depressive state. So yeah, like you were just saying here, and you have people who are anxious because of the relationship, and then they are actually in that fight or flight mode.

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Their emotional intensity is like eight, nine, ten out of ten. So they can't think rationally. None of us can. And they're interacting with us out of this sense of high anxiety. And it's really physiologically, their whole body is wired for fight or flight. And it's best to try not to engage in sort of disconnect for a while, come back again.

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But that really I think underscores why we don't want to be misinterpreting this is this person's angry at me. This person is taking it out on me. Is manipulating me. They are acting in a way physiologically that makes sense. Yes, yes, yes. And I love that you're, you know, highlighting attachment. Right. Because attachment is that like that by definition, a deep and enduring emotional bond between two people in which each seeks closeness and feels more secure.

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And we developed this, like you just said, like early, early in our childhood. And so when we kind of have an understanding, two of our attachment style, like, did we have secure attachment, do we have anxious, do we have some disorganized that can be really helpful and understanding and almost like it's it's not that it's prescriptive, but you're like, okay, I can anticipate kind of what I might be experiencing and then what my loved one might be experiencing.

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Right. And so, like, where does this come from? We know that if we did not have that healthy, kind of secure attachment, like you just said, feel really cared for, then that survival mechanism can kick in, just like you said. Yeah, yeah. And it's it's not that people can even help it if they're unaware. They can't help it when they're aware, but at the moment they're likely unaware.

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So they can't change this about them until they are understanding, oh, my body is activated for fight or flight right now. And so this is what I need to do. So until people get to that point we're setting our own selves up for frustration for having an unrealistic expectation. Yeah. And so as you're listening writer as they're thinking you might be okay.

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Do I have am I anxious in my relationship. Like how do I feel. Do I feel safe. Do I feel secure? Do I feel like I can have emotional responses and still be accepted? Right? Do I feel secure like this person is going to be there for me? Yes. Do I feel like I have a right to have boundaries from this person?

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Can they be having their own feelings? And do I have a right to have my own? Do I feel like I have to fix it? And so as you're thinking about like where does this come from? And is this something that I'm experiencing? Right. Those might be some questions, right? Did you ask, like you said, because knowledge is power.

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And if we don't have an insight or awareness, we can repeat the patterns. Yes. But the beautiful thing is we don't have to repeat patterns. We can get out of them. Yes, once we become aware and we don't judge ourselves anymore, then the table set for change to really happen. And so if you're noticing yourself having relationship anxiety, just notice that.

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Don't be critical. Just be curious. Because if you and I, when we get critical now we have shame and we tend to shut down. We tend to shut others out and it intensifies the anxiety. Yep. Over time. Yep. And what we can do is validate. So what I do with clients and myself, right. What we can all really benefit from is when we can recognize where something comes from.

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Not perfectly like, you don't have to have a perfect prescriptive, but you're like, you know, this makes sense. This makes sense that sometimes I have trouble trusting or I don't feel totally secure, or that at times I feel insecure. In relationships, you can validate that. Say, you know, this makes sense. So it is adaptive and makes sense that I get anxious or that I push away, or sometimes I pull in and try to seek reassurance.

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Oh, I can validate that and understand this adaptive and then say, what would I like to do differently. Yeah. And so so helpful. And that actually brings to mind when you are encountering somebody who is in that state of arousal, that state of fight or flight. Yeah. What do you do? And you can do very much the same thing.

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You lead with validation, maybe even before that you have your own awareness of two things. Awareness. Yeah. My partner is scared. My partner has anxiety. It's not about me. So you have awareness of that. You have awareness of what's going on inside of me right now. Oh, wow. My heart is racing. My I'm holding my breath. Maybe because I'm anxious and just pay attention to that.

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And then we move into validation of oh wow, I hate that for you. That sounds really disturbing. That makes sense. Yeah. And then we often want to because they're out of control. We have this urge to I got to control this and we don't. That's probably the worst thing to do. And this is a great response. And it's nice and easy.

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You just ask, what can I do to help? Yeah. What do you need from me right now? So after you validate then you move to okay. Yeah. This this really does make sense. What do you need from me right now? And I found when people ask that question of their partner, their partner is sort of stunned. And it actually brings their emotional intensity down.

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And they'll say, well, I, I don't know, it's helpful that I guess you're listening right now. Yep. Yeah. And you might get, I don't know, right. Or you, you can say that makes sense. Yeah. Or you might get somebody who's really shut down. Right. So fight, fight or flight or sometimes like that freeze. Right. And so that, you know, I'm here.

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Well, I don't know if they hollering at you. Well, let me know if there is anything I can do or even like. I know sometimes it's hard to know what you need, but I'm here if you need something. Yes, because then what it does to is it gets that partner out of the pattern of trying to fix it, or not having emotional boundaries and then feeling responsible.

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So it's a both and it's a reassurance of like, I am here, or a validation of I am here and I'm not taking it over. Right. And notice, notice Karen's tone when she said that. Well, okay. And what can I do? I'm here. It's it's a non anxious tone. And having a non anxious presence actually helps other people to not be anxious.

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So it's not trying to fix them. It's just really staying attuned to yourself validating and just inquiring what can I do to help. Yeah. And if you are the one experiencing the heightened anxiety, if you were in fight or flight, that's when you can just name that and then say, I don't know. Thank you for like, thank you for checking it.

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I don't know what I need. And then the top thing you can do is if you are really activated, that fight, which is heart rate's up thinking fast. We feel restless. We kind of like, our movements are more agitated. You just want to calm down? Yes. Right. If you feel like you are shutting down, be like, okay, I'm shutting down.

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I don't want to. I'm like, I'm going to get up and get kind of moving. I don't have to have the answers, but I'm going to get movement. Yes. Now, some people might be listening saying yes, I can relate to relationship anxiety, but this seems a little more intrusive. Intrusive is the word. Yeah. And it might feel that this is just more unrelenting.

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And that's because sometimes it's not relationship anxiety, it's relationship obsessive compulsive. Yeah. And Brett like, can you give a definition or like, an example of when you say intrusive, like what are intrusive thoughts or intrusive thoughts about a relationship. Like what? What does that mean? Thinks? Yes. Intrusive thoughts are really thoughts that enter into consciousness that we don't even know where they came from.

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Sometimes we're offended by them. They're uninvited. It's kind of when maybe you are in your room and picture that you're there. You have a nice time in your room and suddenly, boom, the door opens and somebody comes in and they're upset and they accuse you of something. It's kind of what intrusive thoughts do they come? They're not. They're not invited.

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They're not wanted. And yet we tend to own them and think, well, this is me. And actually, there's a lot of research being done now in neuropsychology that our thoughts don't always come from ourselves. It's fascinating to realize that our thoughts don't always originate from my own mind. And so that's helpful to know because we have these intrusive thoughts and we think, oh, if if I'm thinking this, it must be true.

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And if I'm thinking that our relationship is doomed, well, then that must be true, because that's my thoughts. Yes and no. It's just so when you say not coming from you, you mean like not coming from facts, not coming from any like logic or evidence, right? Yes. They can come from various places outside of ourselves and they act.

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There's been some research on the mind that shows that before people actually are aware of their thought, the thoughts there. Yeah. And that's a good way for us to remember that this isn't necessarily myself. And so when this happens in relationships and people have intrusive thoughts, then we call them obsessions. And then they lead to compulsive behaviors. And so the difference between relational or relationship anxiety and relational OCD is that relational anxiety is all about insecurity for myself in this relationship, whereas relational OCD is more about these intrusive thoughts that I continually experience.

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And the relationship is the theme. And so yeah, it's so helpful. Right. And, and I like your example of intrusive that kind of like busting through the door. Right. And oftentimes intrusive thoughts can be scary, can be extreme. Right. They're kind of like worst case scenarios. And so I picture of like the first going to bust through the door.

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And then I like another example of like an intrusive that is like I'm here like a knock knock knock knock knock on the door where they just keep coming and you can't quiet them. Yes. Yes. It reminds me, my parents, not the best technologically savvy people, they would get stressed out if a phone call came in. Oh I can't believe we're getting a phone call.

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And I would say look don't answer it. Yeah. And they felt like well, we have to answer because it's a call. Yeah. And that's what happens with these intrusive thoughts. Now in relationship OCD, it's these thoughts are more like, what if I don't really love them? What if they're not the one for me? What if I'm lying to myself about this?

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What if what if I should feel more passion than I really am at this particular moment? So notice with these intrusive thoughts, they tend to be rather all or nothing. How about yourself, about your partner, about the relationship? It has to be perfect. And so there's there's the anxiety that comes with that. And then there's all sorts of compulsive things where we're constantly checking our feelings, their feelings.

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We're comparing our partners, and we're asking ourselves and googling, how do you know you're really in love? Those kinds of behaviors. So it's when we're talking relationship OCD it really it's more intense. And it prohibits the relationship from functioning in a place of ongoing growth. It's really stagnant. Yeah. And it really takes over. Right. Those intrusive thoughts that they're in one person's internal experience.

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But it really will start to have a pervasive impact on the relationship. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah I think our goal today was to highlight, you know, that there's different ways relationship anxiety presents, right, that there are times where it feels a little like more mild. And as a working through times where it's like kind of moderate in there.

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And then there's times and it's like it can be really challenging to function within the relationship. Yeah. Well, we really think that this is pretty relevant because relationships are everywhere. And this may not even apply just to romantic relationships. This can be all sorts of family relationships, work environments. And it's important just to be mindful and to I'd say just first accept yourself.

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If we can accept ourselves, which sounds easy, it's pretty hard. But if we can get to that point and realize that, you know, I've got some good things going for me. Maybe not. I'm not the most perfect person in the world, and I'm okay with that. Yeah, that sense of personal security can lead to a sense of peace and stability in your other relationships.

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Yeah. And I think just an invitation to, take the risk in is not even a risk. Right. But it can feel like it, valid. Feels like it to be vulnerable and to talk with your loved ones about how you're feeling in relationships. So it might be to that direct person you're in, that relationship you're talking about or with family or with trusted friends, right?

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And these are things that come up all the time in therapy. That therapist can help you work through as well. Is understanding kind of what is my attachment style and how do I feel in relationships and what helps me lean in and feel connected, and what are patterns I want to get out of. And so it's knowing we're all figuring this out.

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Nobody is. Nobody's the total package. Your relationship. There's nobody that's bright right. So we all navigate this. And so just that permission to get support and to have that insight and take that time to like pause and check in with like, how am I doing? Yeah, yeah. Your relationship isn't broken and you're not. No. Can, it's very normal.

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In fact, there was some interesting research of scientists who created this utopian kind of environment for mice. And they had everything they needed. There was no perpetrators. There was no need for any anxiety or stress. They had all the food they needed, community, everything. And they all died very quickly. Oh, interesting. Isn't that interesting? So sometimes we think the answer to anxiety is to avoid and run away from it.

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And really, anxieties, when we lean into it there we find freedom and then we grow in our own relationship with self and with others. So relationships you're going to have anxiety and that's okay. That is kind of an indicator. Oh good. Now we can grow because we always want to be growing. Yes. Right. And learning and understanding and being willing to.

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Yes. Well we're so glad everybody could join us today. We wish everybody happy Valentine's Day. Remember you're not broken. You are a person of dignity and worth. And let's let's remember this. I remember the closing of an old radio show. The guy said, let's be patient with everybody because we're all struggling with something. Yeah. So take that and enjoy your your Valentine's Day.

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Enjoy and appreciate your partner and your family. Thanks for joining us. If this has been helpful, we would ask you to please like, share, subscribe to this podcast and we'll look forward to seeing you again soon.

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