Ep. 156 | How to Set Boundaries for Better Work-Life Balance

## Everyday Therapy: Episode 157 Transcript

**[00;00;00;03 - 00;00;20;17]**
Welcome to Everyday Therapy, where simple and practical concepts of therapy meet your everyday life. Hosted by licensed marriage and family therapist Brett Cushing and Doctor Karen Ryan, we're here to help you unlock tools and strategies you need to become the best version of yourself. Whether you're looking for guidance, inspiration, anecdotes, or actionable advice. You're in the right place.

**[00;00;20;18 - 00;00;48;21]**
Let's dive into everyday therapy. Hello and welcome to another edition of Everyday Therapy, where today we're going to be talking about an everyday kind of challenge for all of us. And we're talking specifically about work boundaries. How do I do that? And to help us today I'm joined with my esteemed colleague, Doctor Karen Ryan. Hello. Hi, Karen. Boy, this is something where we really have to practice what we preach.

**[00;00;48;23 - 00;01;12;20]**
We did, and it's quite hard. We were just talking about that before the podcast. And the busyness of life and the constant demands upon us all the time. And it can feel like we never get a break from that and we can never get away from work. We're away physically and yet emotionally and in our thoughts. We just have trouble with that.

**[00;01;12;26 - 00;01;32;25]**
We can't even sleep and get a break because it's right there with us, keeping us up sometimes right thoughts and like our phones right where emails and teams and all the messages are just right there. Yep, I kind of long for the the good old days at times where there were no phones, there was no. It just made the the boundary was a lot clearer and easier.

**[00;01;33;02 - 00;01;56;26]**
And I think even with the phones nowadays, we can feel like I should be checking. And just having that access makes it so much harder. Yeah, yeah. And so just a helpful and important topic of talking about like how do we have with work? Like how do we stay healthy with that so we don't burn out, we don't have stress, and we can be present for the things that are most important to us.

**[00;01;56;26 - 00;02;26;22]**
So yeah, today we are talking about boundaries and we believe you're going to all of us are going to be able to walk away with practical, realistic ways to set boundaries without blowing up your career or feeling guilty. And dare I say, we might be able to create boundaries without even apologizing for creating them. So imagine that. Yeah, yes, we might be overpromising and under delivering, but I have confidence in us here.

**[00;02;26;22 - 00;02;50;09]**
So what are healthy work boundaries? Yeah. What does that mean. Yeah. Really hard. What do you think? Yeah. What it means for me is being able to be really present and be focused at work, doing all the tasks and all the things that come with my job. And then when I go home doing the things that are connected with me at home.

**[00;02;50;10 - 00;03;14;28]**
Right. So it is kind of work time and then it is family time, and it is the other roles that I take on, whether that's sports parent or on the czar or a friend or a daughter. Right. And so healthy work boundaries are like things that protect your time and your energy and your mental health, right? And so it's being able to really have a separation between those, those roles.

**[00;03;15;00 - 00;03;30;21]**
Right. And it doesn't mean I can't ever think about it, but it's this healthy balance of, oh, like when I'm back at work, I'll do that then. And right now I'm doing this. So that is kind of the ideal of like, what are healthy boundaries? And that's how I can be like, what? What are your thoughts? That really resonates with me.

**[00;03;30;21 - 00;03;58;12]**
And it overlaps with my understanding of boundaries. To a boundary is essential for identity. Without boundary, there's no identity. We're recording in your office here. And how do we know this is your office while there is your name on the door. But we have boundaries. We have a ceiling, floors. We have walls, we have windows and all different kinds of boundaries so that we know this is Doctor Ryan's office.

**[00;03;58;13 - 00;04;26;21]**
And so boundaries help us understand and maintain our own sense of identity. And what if we were here? There were no walls. Yeah. People, we would not know where your office begins and where outside really begins either. So I like that visualization Brett. Yeah. It's so hard for us then when we think about work, if I don't have a boundary, work will bleed into the other areas of my identity and roles, like you were just talking about.

**[00;04;26;22 - 00;04;59;11]**
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And I think signs of, like when boundaries aren't being honored or met are when we find ourselves like doing pushing work longer. Right? So one of the things is like, okay, I'm going to leave by this time. And then you find yourself pushing back or you're logging back in after you've left. For me, I do like more administrative stuff on Fridays, and so I have a set amount of time, right, that I'm kind of scheduled to work and I will have to, like, look at the clock and be like, when are you going to stop working?

**[00;04;59;11 - 00;05;18;03]**
Because I could work from eight until five, right? And then I don't protect that, that my one day when I have that afternoon off to do those things. So I have to be really intentional and I'll look and be like, Karen, you're pushing it when I'm a half an hour over. And so then I'll have to intentionally choose to do just one more task and then we're done.

**[00;05;18;04 - 00;05;43;00]**
I respect that, that's hard for me. It's hard. It's really hard. I need an external reminder. Something, someone perhaps, to help me remember that my boundary is getting kind of porous and now work is bleeding into other areas of my life. And so I think what can be a misconception is that if I create boundaries now, I'm I'm being lazy.

**[00;05;43;08 - 00;06;04;23]**
I'm really not committed. I'm not all in with work. And I think that's that's really dangerous. I didn't get it all done. I'm incompetent. I'm not doing enough. Right? So there's also that piece of there's for a lot of us like in our jobs, there's like it's never all done right? Like for my job, there's always things left done.

**[00;06;04;23 - 00;06;22;23]**
Sometimes there are jobs where, let's say you work an eight hour shift and you're kind of absolutely done with that line work or whatever it is. But sometimes, and oftentimes there aren't really clear delineations of everything's done. And so not only is it like, I should do that now, it's being okay with things not being totally wrapped up.

**[00;06;22;24 - 00;06;49;14]**
So there needs to be greater work and effort towards that intentionality and creating, because you come into work here and the walls are set and it's clear, and we have to be very intentional to set that. So it doesn't mean we are lazy or uncommitted. And I think there's a lot of evidence that would show taking a break from work to replenish is actually going to create more efficiency and effectiveness.

**[00;06;49;14 - 00;07;09;04]**
There's an old parable about an old lumberjack and a younger lumberjack, and they were going to race and cutting down two different trees. And the younger one kept seeing the older one pause and just lean against the tree. And he thought, oh, I'm going to beat this guy easy. But sure enough, the older lumberjack beat him and the younger said, how did you do that?

**[00;07;09;04 - 00;07;30;28]**
I kept seeing you take a break and I never stopped. And the older lumberjack and all of his wisdom said, well, every time I stopped to rest, I was sharpening my ax. And so there's a good lesson, I think, for all of us, that we feel like we're being lazy, when in fact we're actually being responsible by taking a break.

**[00;07;30;29 - 00;07;56;22]**
Yes. And what breaks can sometimes sound like in my head, and what other clients have shared with me is I don't have time for a break like I need to keep going. I have so much to do, I just need to keep going. And what you highlighted that is so important is what research shows. And what anecdotally I can like report to is if you take the break, that five minute break, get that glass of water, have an intentional lunch break, do those.

**[00;07;56;23 - 00;08;17;25]**
It actually helps you come back and be more productive. Yes, just like the lumberjack. Right? Right? And so that reminder, if you find yourself in that inaccurate narrative or mindset saying, I don't have time, I need to keep working. Reminding yourself that like breaks and even breaks at the end of the day, then when you can go home and do something different and come back, you're going to be more productive.

**[00;08;17;26 - 00;08;40;07]**
Well, because we don't have the physical walls. Yep, we do not. It's hard to see. And we have a culture, I think, in the United States where work, work, work is really important and responsible. How do I know? Because it can be really subtle. If if I don't have the clear boundaries, how do I know then that I'm getting into trouble?

**[00;08;40;08 - 00;09;04;28]**
I'm can having two porous of a boundary. What signs? What symptoms might there be? Well, for me, I know it's constant availability. I like to be available all the time for work things, and I think I like to communicate. I'm all in. I like to communicate. I believe in what we're doing as a company and that's not good.

**[00;09;04;29 - 00;09;26;10]**
Yeah. If I'm seeing myself responding early in the morning, late at night, on the weekends, on vacation, too much availability. Yep. Yeah. Same if for me if I, if I log back in. Right? Like we have to log in to our systems for, you know, records and things like that. And so if I'm logging back in and if I am checking my emails.

**[00;09;26;10 - 00;09;44;22]**
So sometimes I think, oh, I'll just check my emails before I go to bed to kind of see what I'm starting the day with. And that tends to not be helpful, right? Like I actually can't do anything about whatever came up, you know, and it wouldn't be healthy if I did. And so that piece of I can sometimes try to convince myself that it'll help me.

**[00;09;44;22 - 00;10;03;28]**
And I think that's that reminder of like, nope. So it's that intentional. Like, am I logging in? Am I doing this? Am I, you know, for me, like another thing is like, am I not starting my evening activities? Like if I go home and I'm finishing a few things up, like, is my whole schedule getting pushed back and then that adds stress, right?

**[00;10;03;29 - 00;10;24;11]**
And then like also makes me feel frustrated, right, that I'm not then able to give my family what I want to give them. And so I feel like another sign and symptoms is kind of like if you start building up resentment or frustration or you look at a phone and something comes in and you're like, oh, right? Like those are signs of like, not boundaries.

**[00;10;24;11 - 00;10;42;20]**
And like the is all this message came in, I feel like I have to do it. I don't have time to do it now. I'm stressed. Yes. Versus if I don't see the message or if the message can be. Oh we'll do that tomorrow. Right? A good Minnesotan I can do that. Oh and then that's tomorrow. So that's that key right.

**[00;10;42;22 - 00;10;59;27]**
Like or do you need to shut off notifications. So I went on vacation recently and I hadn't. And I was like, we need to shut off the team's notifications. And so that, you know, you do your best then to proactively say when you're available when you're not. So that's why you did not get back to me when I teams you.

**[00;10;59;28 - 00;11;23;29]**
Okay, now I understand. Legit. Yep. Not on teams. Yes I think closely related to that. What helps or what contributes to the resentment is when we are continually saying yes to things at work, when we mean no. And so we get that frustration, and it's really my responsibility to set that boundary. I don't have walls, but I have words and I can say no.

**[00;11;23;29 - 00;11;50;04]**
And if I don't, I can burn out. I can get frustrated. But I take that frustration. I turn it towards myself or I can direct it towards others. I can't believe people are so insensitive. People are always demanding things of me. And so if you find yourself. Yeah, having those kinds of reactions to people, a lot of times we think it's an external thing when really it's an internal issue of my what is my resentment?

**[00;11;50;04 - 00;12;12;22]**
Why am I doing that? And perhaps it's because we're saying yes when we really need to be saying no. Yeah. And I think one of the reasons boundaries can be hard, right. And it's hard for me is like the people pleasing and the wanting to be a good coworker, like wanting to be helpful. Right. Like that is something that is absolutely true to my core of like, I want to be helpful.

**[00;12;12;22 - 00;12;35;29]**
And so that can be a hard piece where it's feeling like you're saying no or pushing something back feels like you're not being helpful, or you're not being a good contributor, or you're not being a good coworker. And those are things to watch for as well. And so really, if you can be intentional and try to shift, like how you think about that and to say, no, I'm a better coworker.

**[00;12;35;29 - 00;12;55;16]**
If I actually say no now and then find another time, or if I set this boundary and right undergurgs a lot of that. People pleasing is fear. Fear of what people are going to think of me, and fear also related to our performance. What's going to happen if I don't get this done? What are people going to think of me?

**[00;12;55;17 - 00;13;16;19]**
Am I disappointing them kind of in line with the people pleasing. And this is my livelihood. Yeah. What if I don't live up to other people's expectations? It might not be that I need to please them, but I need to keep a high level of performance. Otherwise what's going to happen? Yes. And what you might do right with that is then make yourself walk through it.

**[00;13;16;20 - 00;13;30;15]**
Right. So you think somebody says, hey, can you help me with this project? I'm really struggling with it, or can you help me with this? And your thought is like, oh my gosh, I don't have time to do this, but I need to help them. I want to show that I am helpful. There's a lot of people on this team.

**[00;13;30;15 - 00;13;45;28]**
If and then this is where you go down like the rabbit hole, right? And if I don't, then they'll be mad at me. Then they'll think I'm not a good employee and then they won't respect me. Or like, I might not get whatever right or just even that it won't be okay if they're mad at me. And then I invite you to.

**[00;13;46;01 - 00;14;04;22]**
What's the other option? Well, another option would be to say, I can't get to this right now. Could we work on that next week and then walk through? And then what do you anticipate would be that result? Because what you'll find is when you can really make yourself think of the other option. You realize like, oh, nobody's going to be mad at me.

**[00;14;04;22 - 00;14;23;28]**
They're actually probably going to be receptive to that. It is okay for me to say, no, I don't have time right now, but could we do that tomorrow or I need to leave for the day right now? Can we touch base later this week that those are like concrete skills, super helpful, that are really helpful and have really helped me like figure out boundaries.

**[00;14;23;28 - 00;14;46;01]**
I'm going to throw another one in. No extra charge for this. I've learned this very young in my career. Always say yes to your supervisor. So when back in the day when I worked for you, I always said yes, but especially if if you're listening and, you know, it's really hard to say no, say yes to you, supervisor.

**[00;14;46;01 - 00;15;08;07]**
And then say and show me how I can get this done with everything else that I'm doing, and put that level of responsibility on your supervisor. Figure that out so you're not. If it's really hard for you to say no, that's another option to say, sure, I'd be happy to do that. And can you show me how I'm going to get this done with everything else?

**[00;15;08;10 - 00;15;36;14]**
And it really takes the weight off. The other thing I think you can say, and this is really helpful to be an agent of change in your work culture, is to say, boy, I'm overwhelmed. I can't do this and just own it. And there's a sigh of relief, I think when people around us hear that and see others say, you know, I just, I can't and you'll be amazed how many people resonate with that.

**[00;15;36;15 - 00;15;55;02]**
You might even have a lot of people come up to you privately and say, thanks so much. I feel the same way. So you can be an agent of change too. Yeah, because different work environments have definitely have different cultures about this. And so as you're listening, you might kind of reflect on like, what is the culture of my work environment in regards to boundaries?

**[00;15;55;02 - 00;16;13;15]**
And I love that example. And I think recognizing that you can even set those boundaries or ask for that help, and even in such a positive way of like, I would really love to do that, I am excited about that and want to do that, or that is interesting, or I really do want to help on that. I don't know if I can do it now.

**[00;16;13;16 - 00;16;36;24]**
Can you help me? Like you said, figure out, is there something I can take off my plate or do we need to cancel this, or can we do this, or can that be pushed back a little bit? But that lens of I want to do that, I'm just worried I can't get to it or I'm overwhelmed already. And so like, again, if somebody hears a positive response of, I want to do that, help me figure out how they're going to be so receptive to that versus I don't have time for that.

**[00;16;36;24 - 00;16;56;16]**
How can you put another thing on my plate? Like, how could you possibly ask me to do one more thing when I yes, that is more negative, kind of hostile, not negative, but like it's going to lead to it's going to lead to some more defensiveness and be less productive. And so it's knowing I can say no in a nice way, but sincerely a nice way.

**[00;16;56;17 - 00;17;20;18]**
Yes. And I think what's also really inherent with that is it's no longer a proposition in my mind. Me versus them. Yes, yes, it's us working together. And notice, I think when we do get that resentment because we're not setting the boundaries, we go into all or nothing. You're I'm either with you or you're with me or we're against each other.

**[00;17;20;18 - 00;17;45;04]**
So I really like this. I think we've got some good practical tips. Let's maybe provide some more practical boundaries. And I like some just times that we set. You mentioned on Fridays that you have a set time. And so maybe people say, okay, I'm not going to work after six at night. I'm not going to get back on after 6:00 at night.

**[00;17;45;07 - 00;18;10;13]**
No team's on vacation. And so I think, or even in the morning. And so I think for people listening, we all of us need to establish that. What are my boundaries of when work is actually done. And that includes thinking about it? Yeah. The intrusive thoughts that come in when we're lying in bed at night, we can't sleep, and just pivoting from that, distracting ourselves.

**[00;18;10;13 - 00;18;35;13]**
Read a book or do some mindfulness. Listen to everyday therapy podcasts, anything to get yourself distracted. So I think those are very important. One of this came up in Ton with Covid, right? Because as a mental health organization, like we went from never doing telehealth, always being in the office and having kind of boundaries like you highlighted walls and clear to then a shift of like working from home.

**[00;18;35;14 - 00;18;59;28]**
And so that was a big transition because there wasn't a drive from home, there wasn't a shutting down my computer at work and then going. And so thinking through like there are like when you can do a tangible act that helps you finish work, that can be really helpful. So for me, if I log back in at home, like sometimes I'll be tempted to just leave it open so I can like come back to it.

**[00;18;59;29 - 00;19;21;06]**
Like just control, lock my screen and come back. I know that that's not good boundaries. So when I want to be done, I will shut down. And that physically makes a difference, right? So you might as you leave your workstation, you kind of clean it up and then that breathe and leave. Like as you're on your ride home, can you intentionally start to shift your mind and start to shift your thinking?

**[00;19;21;07 - 00;19;49;03]**
Do some body awareness. That's where you breathe. You relax, release the day and transition into home. Like even like the shutting look of a laptop, right? Or putting something down or taking off a jacket, right? And having a set time where like and then a I'm done with work for me, what I do and I think what you're speaking about is very powerful because there's a lot to be said about the posture we take and how our posture can affect our emotions.

**[00;19;49;05 - 00;20;10;17]**
We think our our emotions affect our posture. Yeah. And it really goes both ways. So when I come home, I change from my workloads right away. First thing I do, and because I'm taking on a very different posture, I feel more relaxed. I feel comfortable when I put on those sweats in that sweatshirt. I can feel my body begin to let down a little bit.

**[00;20;10;18 - 00;20;33;11]**
The key is don't go back into work mode until the next morning. But I think thinking of those specific postures and behaviors we can engage in actually can help us make that transition. Absolutely. And I think if you work from home being really thoughtful to about, do you have a workspace and then do you have like home life space and you might have a tiny apartment, right.

**[00;20;33;12 - 00;20;50;27]**
And not have a ton of space, but there might be a chair where you sit at a certain like little table, coffee table or desk, and that is your workstation. And so being thoughtful about that, like, do I do not work in my workstation? And do I shift back into my workstation? Yes, in my evenings or my time off.

**[00;20;50;27 - 00;21;13;28]**
And so that can be another helpful way to have those boundaries. Another one that might be helpful. This one is really convicting for me. So I'm really preaching to myself right here. I noticed sometimes when people ask me things, I'll be saying yes before they get done asking. And so I think what I try to do is not respond at all in the moment.

**[00;21;13;29 - 00;21;37;02]**
Yeah. And delay my yes, give myself an opportunity to actually think about do I want to do this? Can I do this? And it's okay to even not want to do it and to be able to say no, I just can't do it right now. But delaying that, maybe getting back to somebody the next day or even giving yourself a few seconds silence is really helpful.

**[00;21;37;02 - 00;21;57;27]**
When people are asking us to do something. It's okay. It might feel like an eternity to just take 4 or 5 seconds, take a breath, and then give your answer yes. And what you're highlighting bread is like in order to do those skills we talked about to like, recognize what are my beliefs about like needing to make people happy or help or be helpful.

**[00;21;57;29 - 00;22;18;20]**
It takes a few seconds, if not like 30 minutes or an evening to think about, like, what do I already have on my plate? Do I have time for this? What are my fears? If I don't, what can I challenge those and how do I have that? A different shift in mindset and respond differently. And so it's giving yourself that time and even saying like, let me think about that.

**[00;22;18;20 - 00;22;37;25]**
Like I really I want to help out. Let me think about if I have the capacity for that or if I have the time for that. And I like how respectful that is to oneself. Let me think about this so that I can get back to with a very informed response. Yeah, people are not going to be offended by that.

**[00;22;37;26 - 00;22;56;10]**
However, for me that speaks of what happens to us. This is kind of a last practical thing I can think of for people. And it really relates to the anxiety we have about work. What if what if this happens? We go into this catastrophic thinking, and what if I don't get this done? What if my supervisor is going to be upset with me?

**[00;22;56;11 - 00;23;20;20]**
It's and we what we need to do. We think if we keep working, that's going to create greater certainty and stability. If I keep working and in actuality that's reinforcing the anxiety. And so the goal is not to get to a point of certainty and stability in my work performance, that everyone can always count on me or whatever.

**[00;23;20;22 - 00;23;46;08]**
The goal, rather, is to get comfortable with the uncertainty of, yeah, I don't know if someone might be upset with me and that is hard. I don't want to underestimate how important that is. We need to be comfortable and be able to sit in the uncertainty, the the questions, those what ifs and realize it's going to be okay. But I'd never get to that point if I just keep working on. Right? Yes, absolutely.

**[00;23;46;08 - 00;24;07;17]**
And I think the when you said discomfort, it reminds me of as you try to implement some of these changes. Right? So if you're listening, you're thinking, oh goodness. Okay. I'd like to have some more boundaries. I'm okay. What can I do? I want to normalize and validate that as you try to implement them.

**[00;24;07;18 - 00;24;26;03]**
Like you are going to be uncomfortable, you are going to experience anxiety. Kind of like I want to check it or I want to do that, or I want to pop back in here. And knowing like discomfort does not mean that's bad. That means growth and change. So anything new or different for us is going to give a little bit of like discomfort.

**[00;24;26;07 - 00;24;44;01]**
And so that's where you can like I have a little smile on my face, a little smile like yeah I thought this might be hard. It is. Yep. Okay. This discomfort is not bad, right? I am doing this to be healthy and have good boundaries, and that will help me as a person in all my roles as an employee and all my other things I identify with.

**[00;24;44;03 - 00;25;05;06]**
What a great reminder it might mean. I have a number of weekends that are really difficult and really uncomfortable, and that short term discomfort is going to have a long term payoff. Because I'm not on the rat race. I'm not on that constant performance treadmill. So great, decrease that anxiety overall in the moment it's going to like up.

**[00;25;05;06 - 00;25;27;26]**
But then overall oh goodness. Yeah what a great reminder for us. Yeah. So maybe if you're listening you can think of one boundary that you want to implement. This week we've given lots of examples and things you can do and tried to take one little practical advice we've provided here and established that boundary. And just notice how it goes.

**[00;25;27;27 - 00;25;47;15]**
And to Doctor Ryan's point, it might be uncomfortable. Don't expect necessarily that, oh, this is going to be great other way. And other people might not like it either right. Okay. Yes. And so there's a little bit of that balance of like but this is a good thing. So your work it is important. We're not saying it's unimportant.

**[00;25;47;16 - 00;26;09;20]**
Your work is important. But so is the life you're trying to live outside of your work. So I think that's really helpful for us. And to remember I really appreciate this. Every time I am saying yes to people, I'm usually saying no to something else in my life. And when we don't have good boundaries in general, what I'm saying no to is my own sense of identity.

**[00;26;09;21 - 00;26;28;06]**
Yeah, the parts of us that are so important to and that's when I think it's the most stressful is when we don't have boundaries and the other things that are really of value to us, then take a hit. That's what I feel the most distressed. And so that reminder of like, oh, all these parts of me and all these identities and roles they play are important and deserve time.

**[00;26;28;06 - 00;26;51;03]**
And so I want to be present and mindful, like in each role that I have. Well, we appreciate everybody listening. You if you're listening, we appreciate you because you set some time. You set a boundary to listen to everyday therapy. We hope you can listen to everyday therapy as a regular routine for yourself, as a way to empower yourself to become the best version of yourself.

**[00;26;51;04 - 00;27;12;07]**
Thanks for joining us today. Take care. Thank you for listening to this episode of Everyday Therapy. We hope you're inspired to apply today's insights to your own life. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode! If you found this podcast helpful, please leave us a review. It helps others discover the show and join our community. See you next session!

**[00;27;12;09 - 00;27;20;22]**
Everyday therapy is a production of Sagent Behavioral Health, one of the largest behavioral health organizations in the country. To learn more, visit SagentBH.com.